Some VT Observations..

Torben, a great job and very easy to use. Here are some observations, not sure if bugs or just operational issues on some of them.

  1. If the A audio is less than 10 secs, when you hit VT RECORD START, it plays all the jingle, you voice, but then in Mix Editor, it seems to have slid the beginning of the Voicetrack to later. I can slide then but doesn’t match what happened in the VT Window. If I select a new play point on “A” then it behaves.

  2. In the VT Window, I wonder if the column order should be “A”, “M” then “B” to indicate more of a natural progression. Thoughts?

  3. Having the track title and artist for “A” and “B” (by the waveform) would be useful for when you suddenly forget what the track is ;D

  4. In Config, “Voice Tracking/Adjust Player Volume” is unchecked but I can adjust the sliders in the VT Window and it does add the envelope points

  5. In Database (mAirlistdB) the two “Import new voicetracks recorded in…” checkboxes.I see no operational difference with them unchecked or checked. I still get a dialog offering me to Import and close after I hit Save in the VT Window. Is there a way to hit SAve and then bypass that dialog.

  6. Still experimenting with the normalize and Compressor options in the VT track but wondering if it may be good feature to auto-apply when you move to the mix-editor rather than have to do each time manually?

Great first impressions and very happy. Is it a long term goal that you can adjust timings etc from within the VT Window without having to go via Mix Editor?

Much appreciated, Richard

  1. Confirmed. This only happens when the A item has no Cue In set. mAirList tries to set Start Next to the beginning of item A (position 0.000), which doesn’t make sense, because position 0 means “not set” in the mAirList world. Start Next should be set to a single millisecond into item A in this case. Will be fixed in b1404.

  2. Good point. I was thinking about that but could make up my mind. What do the other people say?

  3. Also a good point. Above the waveform? Somewhere else?

  4. If the option is unchecked, mAirList will still record the fader movement, but the volume for A and B won’t be adjusted during recording. This is for the people who use a digital mixing desk - and its physical faders - for VT. If mAirList reduced the volume, it would be reduced twice (once by mAirList and once by the desk fader). - On a site note, I have made this work for my Barth D.MAX mixer: I can move the physical faders, their positions are reported to the software via the serial bus, and the volume sliders in the VT dialog move accordingly. I plan to add support for Lawo and DHD as well, I just have to check how to retrieve the fader positions in those protocols. (I have also purchased a Velleman K8055 kit yesterday, which offers two analog inputs - let’s see if I can build a low cost VT interface from that.)

  5. Hmmm. I turned the option off, and no dialog pops up anymore here.

  6. That’s on my to-do list.

  7. I originally planned to put the VT functionality directly into the Mix Editor, so you can record and mix from the same window. But it turned out to be too complicated, at least for the moment. Maybe later.

  1. I also wonder if A,B & VT is better (as M may not be just Mic, but you may be using a sub-bus to feed the inputs as I do etc.)

  2. I’m thinking just below, as I think that’s where my eye goes (like a caption) but again, as long as it’s somewhere :slight_smile:

  3. OK, That makes sense.

  4. I’ll play with it again and see what happens.


Couple of updates.

  1. I had the “Adjust Player Volume” checked and when I moved the slider down or up, no noticeable difference in my headphones. Seemed to remain constant volume.

  2. Had both options unchecked (Playlist Window and Playlist Editor) and in the Playlist Windows, when I hit “Save” after I have recorded whatever takes, I still get the “Import” windows that offers me the options for entering into the database.

Another idea…

On the volume sliders by Player A and B, can I see the dB as I move the slider?


  1. Will check that.

  2. Will check that too. In the playout window, ok.

Volume slider: The original Windows control doesn’t support that, unfortunately. You can display the raw value, but internally it’s using a linear scale from 0 to 100. I would have to reinvent the wheel and rewrite the fader/slider control from scratch. Or find a suitable 3rd-party component.

I feel sure there’s some fairly simple logarithmic formula that could be used to convert 0-100 to a reasonably accurate dB scale? Similarly, the slider position (with a suitable text scale) could likewise be calibrated in dB? So for example, each 5% of slider movement would ‘equal’ 3dB, with 100 = 0dB, 95 = -3dB, 90 = -6dB, and so on.

Just my 2p worth. :slight_smile:


Windows sliders are always linear. In the VT recorder example, the values 0 (top) to 100 (bottom) are used, and mAirList converts these linear values to logarithmic dB values as you move the slider.

The point is that, while Windows can automatically display a tooltip/hint for the slider, but it will always display the raw, linear value. There is no way to display any other text, e.g. the logarithmic dB value calculated from the linear slider position. (According to some forum discussions I found on Google, there must be some trick, but I haven’t made that work.)

On a side note - the conversion isn’t as simple as Cad is describing it. When you look closely at the scale of a physical mixing console, you will notice that the scale isn’t linear (in terms of dB values) at all: Just compare the distance of a, say, 12 dB step, at the top of the fader scale, and at its bottom. You will notice that the distance is much bigger at the top, allowing for better precision when controlling the volume in that area.

Peakmeters (unless with a simple British 0-7 scale) are pretty much the same:

mAirList uses a similar scale for all volume sliders and peakmeters.

How are you getting the AutoCue “dB” settings, then? Wouldn’t that be a similar formula conversion for what’s being asked here?

Personally I’m not worried about the value as a tooltip, but a label near the slider will suffice. All I need to see is a integer value relative to the top of the slider (assume top is 0dB attenuation). If I drag down, then I can see whether I have -4, -7dB etc. It helps a lot when I start Player 2 (B) at reduced volume.

I did some extensive show work last night and used VT extensively. Some other observations.

  1. Can you make the VT Window (& Mix Editor) positions “session-sticky”. I would open the VT window and have to move it every time above my cartwall. It would be great to have the position remembered. It can be a session sticky rather than ini file written.

  2. Maybe an option for forcing the Mix Editor when you save a VT. Sometimes I hit OK when I meant to go into the Mix Editor. Could be even be a checkbox on the VT dialog so it can be changed at will.

I will say, my productivity was a lot faster with the VT tool, so looking forward to the next alpha/beta.

Finally made the tooltip work in b1406.

The window was supposed to remember its position, but something was wrong. Will be fixed in b1406 as well.

Mix Editor - hm. You mean something like “Ask for confirmation when a take is selected that hasn’t been reviewed in the Mix Editor”?

Or just go straight to the Mix Editor if not reviewed (option of course).

Good news on the Tool tip. ;D

Thanks for the Tooltips with dB. Works well.

[quote=“streamer, post:4, topic:7779”]4) I had the “Adjust Player Volume” checked and when I moved the slider down or up, no noticeable difference in my headphones. Seemed to remain constant volume.

  1. Had both options unchecked (Playlist Window and Playlist Editor) and in the Playlist Windows, when I hit “Save” after I have recorded whatever takes, I still get the “Import” windows that offers me the options for entering into the database[/quote]

  2. Still doesn’t work, but I discovered the option does not appear to get saved. In Configuration, I check it, click on Save, re-launch Config and it’s unchecked. What’s the INI entry and so I can try and add manually?

  3. Still get the “Import File” dialog after hit Save in VT even though unchecked for the database. :slight_smile:

Thanks, Richard

Both issues will be fixed in b1407.

Still doesn’t save on b1407. I check it, “Adjust Player Volume” in the Options tab of VT in config. Save, re-open Config and it’s unchecked.

fyi, on b1407 I still got the database import dialog after a VT save, even though unchecked on db config.


Just getting into VT and have the same issue as streamer (#4 - headphone volume does not dip when the slider is moved down although it does affect the final audio)

Also …

I may have a setting wrong but if I start the second (B) track with the volume slider set to say -10dB and don’t touch it then I seem to get a linear ‘fade up’ from the inital value (-10dB in this case) to full volume (0dB) at the time when the M recording is stopped (see below).


VT ramp.jpg

And a voice tracking bug …

If you select the tracks from the bottom up then the correct tracks are chosen but if you select them from top down then the tracks are offset by 1!

i.e. if you highlight the 3rd track in the playlist and then press shift+up to also select the 2nd track and then press the VT icon then you can insert a VT between items 2 and 3 but if you highlight the 2nd track in the playlist and then press shift+down to also select the 3rd track and then press the VT icon then you will insert a VT between items 3 and 4.

FYI - the mix editor show the correct tracks under both selection methods.


Richard, I have found another mistake in the code - the dialog should not pop up anymore from build 1408 (which I will upload later today).

Ron, the “player volume isn’t dipped” bug should have been fixed since b1407, have you tried that build?

The Player B volume envelope issue will be investigated, along with the problem reported by Richard here:

Unlike the Mix Editor, the VT recorder uses the focused item as Item A, and the one below it as Item B. It doesn’t make a difference if additional items are selected. Note that there is a difference between “selected” and “focused”. Only the item that was clicked last is “focused”. This is the reason for the problem you report: When you select a range of items by selecting the topmost item first, and then holding Shift or Ctrl and clicking the bottom item, the bottom item will have focus, and that’s why VT starts with the bottom item.

I agree that this isn’t very intuitive. I will change the code so that the VT recorder will pick the topmost selected item instead.


I was using v1407 and the ‘audio dipping’ problem was still there (as streamer reported on 31/01 @ 13:26)

OK on the volume envelope - the envelope in the sceeenshot on the redmine problem also looks like it is creeping up but I am sure you will overcome both issues.

OK also on how the VT selects the audio - that would explain why I was getting different things. I (wrongly it seems) assumed that you had to select two playlist items that you wanted VT to go between but if you only have to select the top item then that’s fine now I know.