Segue Editor (for crossfading Items)

OK, we’ve already debated this somewhat in a nearby topic.

This request will depend upon working Envelopes (an announced upcoming feature) for its implementation. SO … let’s assume Envelopes are working, and proceed on that basis.

What I propose is a relatively simple Segue Editor (I vote for that as the best name), which allows visual editing and audio preview (cf. PFL player) of envelopes/fade times/anything else affecting the ‘join’ between two adjacent Items in a Playlist.

There would be a ‘global’ editor in Configuration, which would allow the creation/editing/deletion/selection of an unlimited number of user-named Segue Settings (maybe Tight, Blend, Slow Crossfade, etc.), as well as the editing (NOT deletion!) of a built-in Segue Setting named Default. Note that this function would require TWO demo audio files instead of the present one file shipped as part of the mAirList distribution. Ideally, the dialog would also allow the user to select the pre- and post- audio files via (for example) a pair of text boxes and associated Browse… buttons.

Segue Settings would be stored as well-formed XML stored in files with the MSS extension (mAirList Segue Settings); the file name being the user-defined Segue Setting Name (or Default). For example: Tight.mss, Default.mss, etc.

Playlist Items would also have a new context menu (right-click menu) item to access the Segue Settings editor, or perhaps access would be via a new tab in the PFL Player dialog; or even both. The Item Segue Editor would duplicate the functionality of the Global Segue Editor in Configuration, allowing the user to select (open) an existing MSS file, create a new segue from scratch or by editing an existing Segue Setting, or save a new Segue Setting for later use. The only disabled functions in the Playlist Item instance of the Segue Editor dialog would be Delete Settings (!), and the ability to select the two audio files (!).

‘Individual’ Playlist Item Segue Settings would be stored at Playlist level, i.e. in the MLP file if the Playlist is saved; and restored if the Playlist is inserted/appended/loaded into a running Playlist.

Some of the settings altered by a Segue Editor already exist: StartNext point, FadeOut point, etc. The principal ‘new’ data would be the Envelope settings, which would be used to set up talkunder/talkover. Hence the principal function of the Segue Editor would be to ‘visualise’ all these settings in a way that the user can easily interact with.

(Phew! Quite a while since I’ve written a semi-formal program spec.!)

We can debate that functionality/implementation as we go along, but I think that in this thread, we should principally consider how a Segue Editor would look and operate in practice. I’m certain Torben will let us know what, if anything, is either impossible or at least enormously complex to implement! :wink:

The SAM and Dalet editors are a good starting point; personally I like the ‘stacked’ look of the track graphics in the Dalet In-Flight Editor dialog, but prefer the general ‘feel’ of the SAM Crossfading dialog. I’ll give this some thought and will post a mock-up graphic at some point of how I think a mAirList Segue Editor should look IMHO.

SO, over to everyone else! Does all the above make sense? Have I missed anything by way of features, data storage, etc.? Does this sound like the right way to go in general? What do YOU think?

Let’s discuss … ! ;D


I agree with the above, but i adore the Dalet in-flight editor! I don’t really want something like SAM Broadcaster’s dialog box where it is dragging a node to carry out the segue.

The things i like about Dalet and what makes it such a ‘powerful’ in-flight editor include that it is so easy to use. Click on the item you are linking into, click the segue editor button to bring up the dialog box…it then brings up the previous item in the playlist and by default are together ready for you to drag the nodes back and forth and the item visually moves. There are fade nodes etc and certain settings that you are able to define, such as attenuation of an item (if it is too loud) and the attack and release time of an item (handy for when overlaying a voicetrack or sweeper/ident) so the music is not overpowering other items while they play over and under each other. After clicking save once you are happy with the segue, you then click the insert segue, so the segue will be carried out on that item.

Just some ideas there to give you. Also, i don’t quite undesrstand this bit-

as well as the editing (NOT deletion!) of a built-in Segue Setting named Default. Note that this function would require TWO demo audio files instead of the present one file shipped as part of the mAirList distribution. Ideally, the dialog would also allow the user to select the pre- and post- audio files via (for example) a pair of text boxes and associated Browse… buttons.

If i think you mean that you have to browse for the files you want to segue, then that’s a big no no. If i’m wrong, then can you explain what you mean?

Any other thoughts from anyone? I also look forward to seeing visuals.

Thanks, Ryan.

Ryan, the bit that got you agitated was my description of the global Segue Editor in Config. To check your settings (and remember this is in the Config dialog), you’ll need two ‘test’ audio files available; right now, mAirList ships with one test audio file (test.ogg). So it was a ‘reminder’ that a second test audio file would be needed; and that this new ‘second’ audio file would need to be supplied as part of the mAirList install.

The Browse boxes/buttons idea (again, this is only in the Config version of Segue Editor) is so you can choose any two audio files instead of the two ‘built-in’ two audio files mentioned above (test.ogg plus the ‘other new one’).

If there’s anything else you are bothered by, or don’t follow, please feel free to ask again. :slight_smile:

Incidentally, I don’t like the inaccurate use of the terms ‘attack’ and ‘release’ to describe fade in/fade out durations when ‘overlaying’ one Item over another (which is what I presume you really mean by ‘attack’ and ‘release?’).

My putative design for a dialog may take a day or three to appear: I’m a tad busy with other things today.


Yep, that makes sense now and definately a good idea ;).

And regarding the attack and release statement, it is for when overlaying an ident into the segue, and not the terms i would use when corssfading the main items i.e. the songs…the attack and relase would be used for when you would specify the times which teh underlaying audio file would be ‘turned down’, then ‘turned up’ so that the ident can be heard and not overpowered by the underlaying music.

I look forward to the design.

Thanks, Ryan.

I’m really very unhappy about using attack and release to describe a fade duration, whether it’s down or up. Those terms just sound ‘wrong’ to me; to my mind, they belong on a synth or an audio processor, not in a radio playout system!

The gain envelope system Torben is creating will use ‘points on a line’ (like your Dalet InFlight thingy, or the BCX one, or an Acid PRO track’s Envelope), so it’s a moot point whether fade durations will require names at all. If so, I would probably go for duck in duration and duck out duration: at least those are descriptive and instantly understandable.

Can I also point out that ‘… overlaying an ident into the segue …’ will require two segues to be created/edited, not one?

[ul][li]Segue #1: Music track 1 end ==> ident start[/li]
[li]Segue #2: ident end ==> Music track 2 start[/li][/ul]

I had been imagining a simple Segue Editor like the Dalet one, displaying and altering only two Items. Perhaps we should be thinking of a BCX-style three-Item editor instead? Technically, your ‘ident overlay’ would still be creating two segues, but you would be able to create and audition it in one step instead of two.

Or, should we consider two slightly different Segue Editors, i.e. a two-Item one for ‘standard’ segues, and a three-Item one for (say) voicetracking, ident overlays, etc.? When you click the ‘second’ Item to edit its ‘segue in,’ the editor you get would be chosen ‘automagically’ by mAirList: if the Item’s duration is over 60s (or whatever time you choose in Config ;), mAirList will give you the two-Item editor; if the Item’s duration is 60s or less, mAirList will give you the three-Item editor. What do the panel think?


My 2p worth: I’d go with a “standard” segue editor window with Outgoing Track, Incoming Track - and then an option to select either (or both) as an Over Cut - this would then transform into a 3-way editor where the new “over cut” can be overlayed with the tracks before and after it. Perhaps also include those square fade-in/out envelope markers like you see on EncoDAD and Adobe Audition (for when the song overlaps are considerably long).

I’d also suggest some sort of scroll or zoom feature where the actual visible length can be adjusted for accuracy - or, at the very least, 5sec of extra length either side of the segue.

Duck In and Duck Out sound like good names :slight_smile: Duck Attack sounds something like an old NES game :wink:

Hah! ‘Duck Attack’…love it!

I like all of your ideas above, Cad and Charlie and yes, a zoom in and out feature i’d say is a must for the same reasons as Charlie stated…accuracy.

I really don’t know what else to add, other than, i look forward to seeing the final product/design stage pics!

Thanks guys, Ryan.

Any news on the matter in hand Cad, or is it slow progress?

Thanks, Ryan.

Sorry for delay on this: I’ve been busy with LOTS of stiff for the bridge club, plus LOTS of stuff for Leith FM; so this is very much on my back burner.

Feel free to take up the cudgels!


Ah ok! I know how you feel when radio life takes over!

And i wouldn’t know where to start with this editor!

Thanks, Ryan.

I’ve got an XML sample project for Visual Studio, so reading and writing data to an MLP file would be quite straightforward. At it’s simplest, you could use a slider to drag the overlap and multiply the postition value to mimic the mAirList decimal standard. A simple BASS call to play the audio - or use the waveform function to show the actual file… Hmmm.

I think that if Torben built in a segue editor and voicetracking, It would make mAirlist a VERY powerful bit of software. You could tighten Your voicetracks up just how you wanted. I know that darp has a tiny little segue editor at the bottom of its playlist window because we use it one of the station I work on. It’s brilliant and makes the pre-rec stuff sound live!

I don’t know who the first was, but I’ve seen several DARP screenshots and the playlist window feels like very similar to RCS Selector…strange… :-\

Of course, there are differences, but very very similar too. And the windows allowing to manipulate block sound as you want it to sound live is totally similar to RCS Selector…

If you want to, I can give you RCS Selector screenshots and you will see yourself what I’m saying :slight_smile:

Yes, DARP looks like RCS Master Control - and also bits of Myriad. The early versions of DARP had almost identical cart players but with an RCS-style log. The DARP editor is very basic - it’s just a couple of colour shapes than can be moved and I’ve found it to be a bit hit and miss and you can easily “break” it. But it’s better than a poke in the eye from Basil Fawlty!

Yeah, Sometimes when I make these great segue Darp completly ignores them and does its own thing! A advanced editor like in RCS or Dalet would be fantastic. Definatly something Torben should seriously consider adding!


I’m completly okay with you mcr-tom !!
For having used it during 2 years, it’s really really great to operate with this graphical segue editor. Handy and easy. Very accurate too…