I’m trying to enable a news bed jingle (newstune.mp3) but each time the news file (news.mp3) starts in the jingle, the bed fades away …
All this is done in automation mode with news and jingles being schedulued.
The news tune is 4 minutes long and the next cue (fade cue) is placed at 5 seconds from the start, so the news tune starts and 5 seconds later, the news itself should start while the bed is still playing.
Even if I set the tune’s Cue Out at the very end of the bed, the tune fades after starting the news.
How could I keep the bed playing and let it stop when the news itself has ended?
This does not work, because the automation only plays one item at a time, and fades out any previous items.
How is this solved in other automation systems?
Extend the actual News Bed file by inserting silence at the end - Then either put the CueOut at the end, or set the FadeOut duration in the file’s Properties box to something extremely large.
ie: If you have 10s of silence after the audio, and a 5s fade - It won’t actually “fade” until 5s into the silence, if you see/hear what I mean ?!
Torben, if I understand it, the cue out only applies to assist (manual) mode? And automation only uses the fade out marker?
Don’t know how other automation systems handle this, I’ve only used this manually by pressing jingle-machine-buttons and manually fading
I could, of course, use a news jingle without music bed. Fading the news jingle is no problem then
The automation uses both Fade Out and Cue Out, assist mode only uses Cue Out by default (and also Fade Out if set in the config).
Other systems would usually (in full auto un-manned situations) use an I/O contact closure to switch on the News channel on the mixer, or route it direct to air, depending upon how the station routes it automation audio during overnights/auto etc. Other (cheaper) systems use the Line In - You route the news feed via the Line Input and the system toggles it on/off according to a playlist even or scheduler setting.
In the case of an actual audio file - You’d most likely have a “do not fade” option for that particular segue/audio event, allowing the News Bed to remain playing whilst the News audio starts over the top.
Another way of doing it (AudioEnhanceDPS) is to have reserved audio categories like DRY/TRACKED for voice items. It’s edit player offers an Outro Marker option, which allows only a DRY or TRACKED item to start at any point during the cut - When the Outro/Seg point of the voice item is reached, both are faded. The normal Seg point of the Talk Bed is placed near the end of the file in the usual way.
This would allow, for example the following to be scheduled:
TALKOVER BED (5 min) - outro point set very close to start of file.
DJ LINK (1 min)
Even though the bed is 5 minutes, the Jingle at the end of the sequence will come in after the DJ Link and also fade the bed - allowing any length of voicetrack to be played over a long bed.
If you’d rather me draw a graphical explanation - Please say so, I’m struggling to understand what I’ve written But it works.
Charlie, thanks for the explanation. I unterstand the concept. I will soon introduce the Start Next cue markers. Then it will be possible to have the bed playing while the news audio file starts.
However, wouldn’t we need a “fade out any other player” option at the end of the news track, or at the beginning of the jingle, respectively? Otherwise, the bed wouldn’t fade out when the news track is finished.
Indeed, when the news itself ends, the start of the next item should also stop the news bed.
Maybe something for a “container” setup? Scheduling a container (sort of short playlist) containing a news start+bed, the actual news and a last item which stops all previous items … Not sure if that’s a good idea, just “thinking loud”
I will first try to implement this for the main playlist, and then also for container items. Using a container for that sort of news break is certainly a good idea.
I guess the StartNext cue markers will be set sparingly by users, given that mAirList cannot “duck” volumes based on audio types (yet)… If there are StartNext cues set on sweepers, for example, the tech op is going to need to be quick on the faders to ensure an even mix of levels between outgoing song, sweeper and incoming song
The tech op would run mAirList in assist mode anyway, wouldn’t he?
Placing a sweeper between to songs, while using the incoming song ramp, is not trivial, is it? What settings would be needed to produce satisfying results? I still don’t get the big picture …
I think perhaps I’m getting ahead of myself, although I am only thinking of features that may be implemented later on. Taking note of your “must use a mixer with mAirList” stance (I agree, by the way" - I’m just thinking of ways to make these features as simple as possible.
I think creating a slick on-air sound with little human “thought” is what I’m getting at - ie: if the markers are set correctly, mAirList will “do what it’s told” and play files in/out and not crash vocals or mash beats etc.
This sort of thing will require mAirList to know what kind of audio it’s playing, in order to handle the fades correctly. This may also aid the devlopement of the Scheduling feature in the new SQL system that your developing, Torben
Most interesting discussion, with which I wish to make one comment… I still prefer to use mAirList in full auto mode even when I’m “assisting” it to produce the results I require.
Definition of results= letting mAirlist do everything brilliantly and me interjecting (announcing/presenting) only as required.
Perhaps this could be kept in mind in deliberations.
Love mAirList to bits, Torben
I understand that it might be convenient to use the automation features even in live shows. Just be aware that the automation will never be able to produce the same results as a human operator on his mixing desk. Just because the automation cannot listen to the audio, it does not know how lowd or intense it sounds, and it cannot react to it. Don’t forget that mAirList is a machine.
So whatever we imagine as nice-to-have automation features, we should stay within the limits of feasibility and reason. For example, if anyone wanted to teach the automation to make segues that would require envelope editing or such, he should rather use Cool Edit or Samplitude to mix that files, shouldn’t he?
Let’s go back to the news example. Charlie, the “Outro Marker” in AudioEnhanceDPS you mentioned should exactly be what I image as mAirList’s “Start Next” marker, or alternatively the “Fade Out” marker + a “do not fade” option. It starts the next item without fading the current one. Of course, the bed should be produced in a way such that it ducks automatically at that point. This shouldn’t be mAirList’s task.
We then finally need a “fade out any other player” option at the end of the news track or at the beginning of the jingle, and we’re done.
That’s correct, the news bed should be created with a more quiet part there where the news comes in.
Could the “outro marker” be of any help here? That for certain files the outro marker acts as a “start next but don’t fade this one”-feature? And that these files (news and promo beds) have “bed” as a part of their file tag, so that mAirList handles such files in a different way as other…
But then, we still need to stop the bed-deck when the news file has ended.
Maybe with another tag-option, files (end-of-news jingles) containing “stop decks” or something in their file tag…
Yeah, maybe mAirList should act different everytime it finds “bed” or “stop” in a file tag?
“bed” meaning “don’t fade but start next”
“stop” meaning “stop currently playing decks” … but don’t stop automation, just go ahead with the rest of the playlist.
Just some ideas
We shouldn’t “overload” the cue markers, each cue marker should have its own specific meaning. And inserting a new type of cue marker is a not a problem for me - I just add two or three lines of code, and the PFL dialog will automatically adjust itself
The “don’t fade” or “fade any other player” etc. options will be implemented as check boxes, just like all the options in the config dialog.
Handy thread for when we make the changeover to mAirList on a full time basis (currently we only run mAirList for live assist)
As Charlie has already said, at one time we at one time used a bed of silence running in the player with the line-in of the soundcard open for the period of news.
The news In bed consists of Station ID/News Jingle/Silence with a cue/command timed to finish at the news end to close line in and start the next piece of audio playing.
We have changed this (having moved from DPS) to muting the output but openning the line-in to play news, reversing this when the news finishes.
The news in jingle is a timed event within a playlist, the command to switch output lines a break note (command) all handled by station playlist creator/studio.
I used to have such a “news automation setup” at my former station.
We had that setup:
News Bumper (with no music bed)
headlines’ music bed with news stinger
News (dry - no bed)
we start the first player with the bumper
afterwards we switch to auto mode
when the bumper ends (fade point) the automation starts the headlines’ music bed with the stinger and the news (Player 2+3)
the headlines have a certain length, so the stinger is always right on time.
so there must be a special fade point that starts a title but does not fade out the other.
we also used that feature with some whispers.
the whispers started in automation mode and the next title also started. The programming was very sophisticated because the length of the whispers fit to the ramp time. same with some elements that had a dry end.
p.s. torben if you want me to write this in german (due to the limits of my english) i could do so.
Just in case there’s an impression that all news feeds are fixed length, in our case, not so.
While mAirList is being refined, we are using ZaraRadio as our playout system and our FTP downloaded news and separate sports bulletins are dealt with thus:
We have a pre-recorded 15 second news sounder (newsounder~7.mp3) which runs for around 8 seconds and then fades to -12db runing on with a gentle fade over 7 seconds to infinity.
At the -12db point the next event is triggered (newscheck~0.mp3) until finished.
Then a 5 second sports sounder (sportssounder~3.mp3) is triggered and does a similar drop in level with a more rapid fade of 2 seconds running under the sports news (sportscheck~0.mp3)
As you can see the whole process is automated and at the end of the sports news a weather jingle then starts, runs for around 2 seconds, then drops to -12ish and then fades out.
Invariably the weather is longer than the run out/fade and therefore is cold until the “top of the hour intro” is manually fired, then backi into “look everyone, no hands” automation again until the next voice break.
Thats how we do it unless we fall asleep on the job, and there’s dead air after the weather jingle… Just kidding!!