Can I request/suggest that the node of the mAirListDB browser tree currently named Folders is changed to Categories?
Experienced music schedulers (i.e. people not software!) will be more familiar with the term ‘category,’ plus it makes writing about mAirListDB much easier. 
BFN
CAD
No, because the folder structure is meant for more than just categories. You can also use it for “rotations”, “cart sets”, “watch lists”, etc. It’s even possible to have more than hierarchy at the same time, because an item can be in multiple folders (currently only with a small trick).
This is why I called it “folders”, a term everyone should be familiar with from Windows’ file system.
So, what single word do you suggest I use to refer to the Artists, Years, and Attributes nodes as a single ‘unit?’ ‘System folders’ or ‘Generated folders’ is much too cumbersome a term; which is why I thought Categories would solve the problem (you can then call evertything ELSE a Folder).
BFN
CAD
Which trick is it actually? ???
I don’t know either: the ‘trick’ is on my Big List of Things to Ask About mAirListDB.
For me right now, it’s more important to discuss the two major Names: for the folders the USER can create, and the other ones which MAIRLISTDB creates (Attributes, Genre, Artist, etc.).BFN
CAD
Actually, I can’t remember what the trick was. I think it depends on the type of node in the left hand tree you located the item through in the first place. It’s also rather a bug than a feature, and I shall implement a proper way to handle this.
Anyway, regarding the original topic, let’s not mix things up here please. Have a look at the tree in the DB management application:
“Folders” is the folder hierarchy created by the user (except for the “Unsorted” folder which is always there and which contains all items which aren’t assigned to any other folder).
“Artists” is exactly what you entered in the Artists of the item properties dialog, presented in a convenient three hierarchy so you can easily locate all songs by a particular artist.
“Attributes” are the name/value pairs entered on the page with the same name in the Properties dialog. They are used to enter any information for which there is no separate field in the dialog. Some attributes are automatically created during file import based on the file tag, for instance, the “Genre” attribute which is read from the Genre ID3 field (if present).
I agree that when using the Mini Scheduler, the folders correspond to what is called “categories” in other scheduling software, and when you use them only for the Mini Scheduler, it would be ok to name them “categories” in the first place. But what if the user decides to use the folders for a completely different purpose? Or for a different purpose and for the Mini Scheduler? (You can just make two subtrees.)
From my point of view, it’s straightforward to understand that the Mini Scheduler picks the items from “folders”. But it would be hard to understand why the place where you e.g. collect the songs to be played in one of your next shows is a “category” and not just a folder.
Your turn.
While I’m here, how difficult would it be to have:
— an extra level under Attributes/Years (if it exists), which would be (e.g.) 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, etc.? Each ‘decade,’ when clicked, would show ALL the items for that decade (all the records matching SELECT FROM … WHERE LIKE ‘194*’ for instance) in the right-hand Items pane.
— an extra level in Artists, which would be A–D, E–K, L–R, S–Z? I’ve implemented this in every audio database which allows me to do so, because it makes navigating the tree MUCH faster. It would not be necessary to show all the matching items in the right-hand pane if one of those nodes is clicked: your decision, Herr Doktor!
— Configurable ‘ignore’ words for Artists, so that you could ignore the FIRST occurrence of words like The, A, Les, Die, etc. at the START of an Artist’s name? This would put The Beatles back under B and A Flock Of Seagulls back under F, but would leave The The under T. Having to do that manually is boring, time-consuming, and just clutters up the Folders with entries which shouldn’t need to be there.
Back at our original discussion …
I hear what you’re saying about Folders, but my issue is more about ‘what one word can I use to refer to all the system-generated “folders”’? How could I write something like: ‘In an Hour Template, you can add items which are Folder names but you cannot add items from the .’ without '’ becoming ‘the Attributes and Artists nodes (and all the nodes under them)?’ That would be a very clumsy and ugly way to have to write it.
Though, especially with my suggestions above being added, it would be excellent if one could use system-generated nodes as Hour Template entries. It would then be easy to schedule ‘a Madonna track’ or ‘a track from the 1970s.’ It’s understandable that you don’t want to write a full-blown Scheduler, but it doesn’t seem like the changes I’m suggesting would be such a huge programming effort to implement (and please DO correct me if I’m wrong!).
If that were done, the Mini Scheduler then becomes an even more useful tool for very small stations like ours, which simply can’t afford to buy a ‘proper’ scheduler; and frankly, we wouldn’t need or use even one-hundredth of the capability of even SPC! It would also make our training much simpler (no need to ALSO train people in, say, SPC as well as mAirListDB). Finally, we would have only one database (mAirListDB) to maintain, instead of ‘the Scheduler’ and mAirListDB: that just seems more efficient to me, and also means no chance for the two databases to get out of sync with each other.
BFN
CAD
So many things discussed in a single thread. Let’s see…
First of all, let me say that I do see that the Mini Scheduler is useless for serious scheduling at the moment due to the lack of e.g. artist separation. The point is that the current algorithm is so simple and trivial that it cannot be extended in any way. Did you know how it works anyway?
- Load the list of items in each folder involved.
Shuffle each list, using a permutation calculated from the current item IDs (thus it is garanteed that the order remains the same as long as you don’t change the folder content).
Walk through the template, picking songs from the folders according to the randomized order.
Shuffle all non-fixed items.
Save the position of each folder’s randomized list in the folder_config table (to make sure that, the next time the scheduler is called, it resumes where it stopped).
Yes. It’s that simple. And it’s easy to see that most of the requested features cannot be added. For example, artist separation cannot be added because the algorithm does never look back in time at the logs created so far. And what happens when there’s no song matching the criteria you entered?
It’s very easy for intelligent human beings like us to define the rules of music scheduling: do not play the same song twice within x minutes; do not play the same artist twice within y minutes; let’s have 30% 80s music and 30% 90s music and 40% current music in our list; the first song in the list should be a fast one; etc.
The problem is, computers aren’t intelligent. They don’t want rules, they want algorithms. Precise instructions. And believe me, it is not at all trivial to write an algorithm which does all this. I’m sure I could make it, after all I have a PhD in computer science. But it’s nothing you could do on a Saturday afternoon, it’s rather something you have think about for several days or weeks until you eventually come up with an algorithm (and an implementation, probably written in a few hours). And I must say that I’m already far too busy with writing the playout part. And selling it.
So if you do have a proper algorithm, just let me know and I will be happy to implement it and include it in mAirListDB. But remember, it must be an algorithm, not just a list of rules.
I’ll write more later, dinner is ready.
Can I just add my support to CAD’s request.
I don’t think we are looking for anything that matches SPC in functionality but there is a large jump in complexity from live assist to ‘full automation’ not only in finding/using a full scheduling package (of which only a small proportion will probably be used) which has a whole new learning curve plus the additional effort involved in keeping the databases in sync.
Torben - I fully understand your comments regarding the scheduler but it seems a shame that we are so close but yet so far …
If I read it correctly the actual coding is relatively ‘easy’ (without trivialising the task) if the logic is there. Is defining the logic something that ‘we’ could attempt as a new thread without troubling Torben too much ?
Ron.
On the contrary: it is over 70% useFUL IMHO.
cough< Speaking as someone who’s worked in computing since 1975 and been a programmer since 1980; who is a Chartered Engineer and a full Member of the British Computer Society; and who has written numerous database systems for commercial clients; then yes thanks: I do understand all about algorithms and I am very happy to write them. I agree about Saturday afternoons: I write most of my best algorithms some time after midnight!
Be careful what you wish for … !
PS: I note, Torben, that you have still avoided answering the ‘what word do I use to describe Attributes+Artists’ question? :
Which was where I started this thread.
BFN
CAD
Sorry, far too many aspects in this thread, and too little time…
Wouldn’t it be ok to explain that the Artists and Attribute subtrees are automatically generated from what you enter in the items’ Properties dialog, while the folder structure is something you can manage by yourself?
I mean, yes, all of them are displayed as parts of the same tree. But so what? In Windows Explorer, Control Panel is part of the big Desktop tree, just like “My Documents” and your hard disk drives, and it’s also two different things.
