Automation broken in v2.1.22/v2.1.23

Hi.

Just for your information: The automation algorithm is broken in the latest versions. I haven’t been able to fix the problem yet, I will have a closer look tomorrow. For the moment, please refrain from using that versions if you want to employ the automation mode.

Torben

Update: It seems that the problem is related to tempo/pitch support with BASS_FX.DLL. If you disable it, everything seems to be fine.

I have to comment on this.

Torben has always said that mAirList is a radio playout system, not a club DJ system, and not an Internet streaming system.

Pitch/tempo shift is IMHO not a broadcast player feature and never should be. Implementing pitch/tempo shift seems to be causing lots of consequential errors and problems in mAirList, and I am not surprised by that.

Any system which use cue points for Automation (like mAirList) will always have problems if pitch shift is used. Think about it: imagine a song which lasts exactly three minutes with a Fade Out point set at 2’58". Then you add a -1% pitch shift on the fly. Do you still fade the song at 2’58"? Do you immediately recalculate new ‘relative’ cue point(s) every time the pitch is changed? If you recalculate the points, do you offer to store the new cue point(s)—which will of course only apply at that precise pitch shift value? Etc., etc. …

I’m not aware of any other ‘serious’ radio playout automation software which allows pitch-shift (no doubt others will now post the product names in this thread :wink: ). Apart from making a song ‘fit’ a specific length of time (instead of having to fade the song early), I can think of no practical use nor need for a pitch shift feature for live-Assist use, and certainly not for Automation use. It is also usually very obvious to more musical listeners when a song is pitch-shifted that it sounds ‘odd’ or ‘wrong’ somehow.

Am I the only person in the Forum who has these views? Or is pitch-shift really a necessary feature for some people—because I honestly can’t think of any reason WHY you would want this feature?

(PS to Torben: “Don’t worry, Cad, you can switch it off!” And yes I know that, but I’m worried about ‘non-radio’ features creeping into my beloved mAirList!)

BFN
CAD

Well, you DID ask :wink:

BCX3 and RCS Master Control can employ the pitch-trick to “fit-to-time”. Having listened back to my VT’d shows off RCS, it’s so subtle that you can’t really hear it. But I agree on the other points - and wouldn’t support the idea of a tempo slider on a Player ;(

Having said that, BRMB up/down in Birmingham is notorious for setting their Denon CD players to playback at a higher pitch. The ethos being that if you hear the same song on another station - it sounds dull/slow by comparision… and you switch back.

The focus of mAirList has always been, and will always be, broadcasting. And I agree that there is no need for pitching or tempo adjustment in broadcasting. I wouldn’t even want to stretch songs. This sounds like an ugly idea to me.

Nevertheless, we have some users from the club/live DJ community, who enjoy using mAirList and take advantage of its features for various reasons. Pitching was one one the last pieces of the puzzle for them. There is no sense in denying it just for “philosophical” reasons. Just because it was very easy to implement with the means of BASS_FX.

The automation bug fixed in v.23 was not related to pitching but to the handling of Start Next markers. The problems which remain now are in fact related to BASS_FX, but they do not occur when you leave the pitching option unchecked.

Standard “you can switch it off, Cad” disclaimer: g

Having deactivated BASS_FX, the signal is not at all routed through BASS_FX, but anything works as before. Even the pitch/tempo controls are hidden from the PFL window, so you don’t even notice a difference.

Torben