Version 4: Recorder option

I really like the new V4 features and would like to suggest another.

There are many times that a quick recording needs to be made: a funny telephone call to be aired, an interesting interview, etc. I think a nice feature would be a simple recorder.

I suggest a “Record” button on the main GUI that would open a small window, which would contain all commands. The DJ would press a record button, and then save the recording into the database once the recording ended. For playback, there would be a play button or the recording could be dragged from the database into one of the cart players.

In addition, it would be nice if one could normalize from the window. The DJ could, of course, save the recording into any of the folders, but an additional option would be a default location button so that the DJ could quickly save into a specific folder without having to scroll the database.

Regards, Alec M

Such an ‘audio recorder’ would of course require:

  • ability to assign different inputs (cf. the current ‘audio devices’ setup for Players etc.)
  • ability to perform simple ‘cuts’ (paste not necessary), preferably with at least ONE ‘undo’

    BFN
    CAD

Yes, I was thinking that the input would be the mix directly off the console: be it a telephone call, telephone call and announcer, interview between announcer and studio guests, etc. The recorder would allow quick and simple recording for audio that is to be rebroadcast immediately or edited later for other use.

Regards, Alec M

Not if you’re recording an off-air phone call while you’re also broadcasting live through the same mixing desk.

The recording input in that case would need to be the mixer’s AUX or AUD output. :wink:

BFN
CAD

Okay, I was talking about console mix only. Your idea is a little more advanced. I like your idea even better ;).

Regards, Alec

Hi Alec, record of the Aud Bus (providing that bus is not going to “Air”) if you have one along the lines of this trick:

http://forum.mairlist.com/index.php/topic,5236.0.html

We do this all the time

All I would suggest there is using Hanso Recorder (which is free) instead of iSoundPro (which isn’t).

What we do is use our AUD bus (on our Sonifex S2) to record a music-free podcastable version of live shows. Only the mics., Cartwall, and telco channels are routed to Aud, which is sent to and recorded by Hanso Recorder in ‘silence detect’ mode; hence no four-minute gaps between the ‘talkie bits’ which some poor soul would need to find and chop out later (using the incomparable freeware mp3DirectCut, of course!).

BTW, a nice find from the German forums is the freeware PoP-Tools level meter:
http://www.pop-tools.de/?articleID=88
This is nicely configurable and—in its ‘needle’ configuration only—even has overload LEDs under the meters.
I’ve used Resource Hacker (and a hex editor) to make an English version of this with an English config. dialog. If anyone wants a copy of this, please PM me. You still download and install the original German version, then simply copy my modified .EXE over the one that is installed.

Of course, for complete accuracy in metering, look no further than the free Orban loudness meter:
http://www.orban.com/meter/
The only downsides of this is that its window is non-sizeable; and though you can ‘switch off’ the ‘irrelevant’ scales by clicking the little blue blob to the left of them, they are not removed from the window. This is also an excellent product to demonstrate to the less technical types why you use PPMs and not VU meters! ;D

(erm … wandered somewhat off-topic there: sorry!)

BFN
Cad

Talking of meters, despite me living in the US now, I’m still a great fan of ye olde PPM’s, and had numerous arguments over the years etc.

http://www.darkwood.demon.co.uk/PC/meter.html#PPMA

These work very well and when I do live shows, I have a set of these on the window. Makes me feel right at home…

I would, of course, suggest using mAirList Audio Logger, which is not free, but integrates seamlessly with mAirList’s REST remote. Basically, you can wire the “mic on” GPI with mAirList (via a gameport or whatever), and let mAirList send a REST command to Audio Logger to start or stop the recording as you open or close the microphone fader.

You don’t even need an AUD bus then. And you get to hear the music during the ramp talks, which is good if you plan to listen to your show later for training purposes.

Well, yes: but in our case, we have FOUR mic. faders. And one telco fader (for live phone-ins and interviews). And for the specific purpose of podcasting, we DON’T want ANY copyright music on this recording. Jingles are OK because we make those ourselves. So it’s easier to just send tall of those to the AUD bus and send this to a recorder which does silence detection, to cut out the long silences while music is playing from Players or from CD (or even [shock horror!] from MiniDisc).

For training etc. we have a separate ‘high quality’ audio log, fed from the MAIN output bus; and we also use this to provide guests with recordings of their appearances ‘on air.’

I shall of course be suggesting that we purchase the mAirList Audio Logger if and when we have > zero cash! ;D

BFN
Cad

[quote=“streamer, post:8, topic:7359”]http://www.darkwood.demon.co.uk/PC/meter.html#PPMA

These work very well[/quote]
I’ve had these simply Not Work on some PCs, but yes: if you can afford them, the Darkwood meters offer a great range of options. Unfortunately, our station has < zero cash; plus our Real Live PPMs on the Sonifex S2 work fine! 8)

What I was thinking of when I suggested the PoP-Tools meters is the home/hobbyist broadcaster who is working on < zero funds, as we are. The PoP-Tools meters are free (unlike Darkwood) and install even on Very Old PCs (unlike, sadly, the Orban meter). It was just to point PoP-Tools out to the English speakers here.

BFN
Cad

The Darkwood PPM ones are free, he does ask for a donation if you wish and he does have some customisable ones for £15. I coughed up £10 as he modifed them to handle 44100Hz as a sample rate for me, as it was forcing my Adobe Audition records to 48000 after I upgraded to XP SP3 (Why, we never know).

Yes, if you have a desk, then you’re covered, but for us expats and hobbyists, love 'em.

I feel another discussion with a US radio colleague about VU vs PPM again. :slight_smile:

In case you’ve never used it before, the Orban Loudness Meter (Public Beta), as mentioned above, is the tool to use for those discussions: and it’s from a technically impeccable source. No offence intended to the Darkwood Meters or PoP-Tools developers by saying that: it’s just that Orban are unquestionably a bigger ‘name brand,’ and even the most dogged defender of VUs can’t argue with their credentials.

Then after installing it, play your friend any decently-recorded tune from the 1950s or 1960s and prove that the VU spectaularly under-reads by at least 4 and sometimes even 12 dB. Fine (just about!) in analogue AM if you then whack the level up by said 4-12dB and thus overshoot: the valve (tube) just gets hotter and gives you ‘warm’ distortion; and with any luck you don’t trip anything in any phone company lines to the transmitter. The latter being a definite factor in the early development by the BBC of our beloved friend, the PPM. No peaks would then cause costly damage which the BBC would then be required to pay for to the (then) GPO-owned and copper-based PSTN which carried the so-called ‘music lines,’ which if I recall were actually four regular telephone lines per channel, each carying a frequnecy-shifted chunk of the frequency spectrum, and encoded/decoded at each end into full-spectrum audio. Fans of the late Dr Dolby’s A system would be right at home with this concept! ;D

But for modern FM, where the signal is often carried digitally as some point (in our case, the STL uses Barix), and thus where any overshoot beyond -0dB causes at best some digitial ‘fizzles’ and at worst, nasty clicks and pops? Nah: VUs just don’t do it, my friend. PPMs are way closer to the true digitally-measured peak levels (which is what the RED peak-hold markers are showing on the Orban meter), as the emulated PPM-ballistic clearly demonstrates. Sure, they miss once in a while and under-read a little bit, but NEVER go over 6 and your broadcast processor’s make-up gain will have some (head!)room to play with and thus give you a much better sound.

ahem<

Lecture/rant/tutorial/monograph/history lesson over! :wink:

BFN
Cad

Hi Cad,

Oh, we know ITU (BS) 1770 only too well. TV Stations over here are knee deep in the recent legislation of the CALM act (Commercial Loudness) etc. In fact we had a plethora of Optimod TV units but alas all powered down know. They can’t handle 5.1 audio, and compressing 5.1 becomes its own chapter and verse, start playing dialnorms etc.

Throughout the plant VU’s dominate, the audio op in the studio lives and dies by that. We have a Junger ALC (automatic loudness control) stuffed on the end, and that’s where we do the final measurement in wonder dB LKfs. (yup, Loudness, K weighted, relative to nominal full scale etc.).

Fun fun fun, I think our spec is something like peak -5, dialogue -27!

I’m sticking to PPMs for me, VUs for him :slight_smile:

Actually, I usually quote the following when I get asked this question by my colleagues, and was drilled into at BBC Wood Norton when I was training way back in the 80s.

A good engineer will use his eyes and ears as the tools of quality, making use of the waveform monitor and meters as reinforcement…

Never forgotten that. Too many engineers try to ensure video hit 100% (even though there may be no white in the picture) and audio had to hit PPM 5, even though it was heavily compressed… ::slight_smile:

[quote=“streamer, post:14, topic:7359”]drilled into at BBC Wood Norton when I was training way back in the 80s.

A good engineer will use his eyes and ears as the tools of quality, making use of the waveform monitor and meters as reinforcement…[/quote]

Too true! And by the way, my Wood Norton period was in 1974. :wink:

BFN
Cad

1982,83 & 85. :slight_smile:
Great fun, great times and too much beer. Many memories.